The Steve Nam Podcast

What's up? So I wanted to read you something. Okay. I have some proverbs here.

Ah, from the word. You're gonna like this. Here's the first one.

A nagging wife annoys like a constant dripping. Better to live on a corner of the roof than share a house with a quarrelsome wife. You got two more.

Are you looking for my reaction? It is better to live alone in the desert than with a quarreling and complaining wife. And finally, a nagging wife is as annoying as the constant dripping on a rainy day, which you like rainy days. So yes, I love the sound of nagging as well.

No, I'll start off by saying I don't think I ever characterize you reminding me to do something as nagging. I don't feel like you nag. I don't know.

That term has always felt like almost insulting to say to your significant other. So it's funny because I think that husbands and wives look at a nagging very differently, right? Because in my experience, what a husband might consider to be nagging, a wife would consider to be like gentle reminding. And there are times that you remind me.

But I think generally, if you actually have to remind me something, I know that, okay, I probably have said enough times that I was going to do it and didn't do it. You don't really remind strongly or suggest strongly that I go complete a task unless I really need to do it or I've said I was going to do it and just you're waiting on me to do it. So back up.

So that's how you would define, like, how would you define nagging? Is that what is? Oh, yeah. Yeah, this is it. I think it's important, right? Because if both people look at the definition of nagging differently than for one person, it's nagging for the other person, it's not.

And until you come to a consensus about what nagging is, it could be offensive to me if you said quit nagging. And I'm like, I'm not nagging. Sure.

I almost feel like this is a setup. So what do you consider nagging? Everything that you tell me. If you ever gave me direction, it's nagging, right? No, I'm joking.

But I think that in some marriages, that could be the case. There are people who think. Don't tell me what to do.

Stop nagging me. Yeah. And it's just one thing, one time.

And that's considered nagging because I should be able to take care of myself, and I should be able to make my own choices and all those things. And then it becomes the same. Right.

It seems like it would be important to get on the same page about what you would define as nagging. At what point does it become annoying? Because nagging is like annoying, right? Sure. Sometimes annoying is just like when you tell me something I don't want to do, and that's annoying.

So stop nagging me. But if you ask me to define a nagging, I think that it is something that you continue to say. And it's unrelentless.

And it's- You mean relentless. Oh, yes. It's relentless.

It is constant. It is just maybe even without regard, you just continue. That's at least what I have learned.

I don't know. In my mind, that's what nagging is. To which I don't think you do.

I can't remember the last time feeling like, oh, she's nagging me. But also, I don't think I've actually said it out loud. Maybe we've worked it out in a way where we get things done a different way.

I don't know. Do you think that you- Do you ever worry that you're nagging? No. Okay.

I'll nag. I'm gently reminding you. Oh, wow.

That was a quick answer. You definitely don't have any sensitivity towards if you're nagging or not. But I also will honestly say I don't think that you nag.

So that's great there. But also at the same time, now go back. Do you feel like you've ever nagged in the past? Do you feel like- Did I ever say that? Because I honestly can't remember the last time that I've ever said the words, stop nagging me or you're nagging right now.

Or even to say, hey, can you just knock it off? I'll do it when I do it. That's at least what I imagine that you would respond to someone who you felt was nag. Yo, chill out.

I got this or whatever. It's interesting because it makes me wonder if it's more about the nagger or about the naggy. Because the person- Because the person that is nagging, quote unquote, obviously they're not- They want something to get done.

And that is the reason for their nagging. They're not nagging because they want the other person to get mad and not want to do it. So for the person- Although I'm sure it could feel that way.

Sure. But for the person that's nagging, they're trying to have the other person do something that they want, right? And the person that feels like they're being nagged, they're the ones that are offended. The person that's nagging is not offended by the nagging.

The person that doesn't want to do what the other person is saying is the one that's getting offended. So I feel like it's a heart check on the side of the person that's saying you're nagging me. Oh, it's all the naggy's fault.

Yes. It's what I'm trying to say. I see.

Very interesting. I feel like maybe a lot of naggers would- Whether it's the guy or the girl, I'm not going to say it's a one-sided thing. Yeah, totally.

And they're like, yeah, exactly. But I don't know if it's just- I don't think that it's a heart check. I mean, because a quarrelsome wife, right? Let's go back to the word, okay? Because better to live in- I don't remember which.

Those verses sounded similar. But better to live in the desert than with, let's just say it was, it said it was a quarrelsome wife. That sounds like a nagger, it was someone to start trouble.

And so I feel like it's also that can be taken that way where, let's just say, for example, I said, hey, look, I'm going to take care of it on Tuesday. But Tuesday is six days away from now. And it's Wednesday.

And you can go, hey, so you're going to take care of that on Tuesday, right? Or you say, hey, you might want to think about doing that a little bit earlier, right? And then I might say, yes, I said I would take care of it on Tuesday. Quit nagging me or whatever, right? And in that sense, why I'm coming to the defense of the naggies and say, you know, if I said I'll take care of it, I'll take care of it. Sure.

That sounds like a true story. That sounds like a true story. Please remind me.

No, I feel like early on in our marriage, I would be like, can you take out the trash cans the night, the night before the trash guy comes? And you were always like, in your pajamas or running the trash can out to the driveway as the truck was like pulling in. Yes. And that is a very, it's just, we have different styles, right? Like I would like it out there the night before.

Although for the most part, it wasn't late. Yeah, I missed it. Maybe it wasn't.

It's like the same amount of times I've ever run out of gas in my life. Once or twice. That's it.

I know in your mind it was more, but I think it was so traumatizing that time that we, that you felt like, oh, he's done it all the time. But anyways. But okay.

So in that example, though, I think that's a good example because you actually said, I will take care of it on Tuesday. And there's like a very definitive stop. Whereas I think nagging generally happens when it's, I'll do it when I do it.

And then the nagging is, when are you going to do it when I get to it? But when are you going to get to it? So I think that when it's ambiguous about when something's going to happen, that's where you run into trouble. Sure. Because I think with the trash, we did end up coming to this point where I was like, it's not really my style to wait until the last minute to get the trash cans out there.

Because that makes me nervous. But also it's not, it's not a life or death situation. Like it's okay if we miss a week, which we only missed a handful of times.

So that was like, that was like 10 years ago, right? Let's fast forward though. Nowadays, I'm taking it out like a day and a half before. Because the sink's so bad.

Because the kid's diapers. No, I'm not going to take credit for that. That's not my nagging.

So you're not rewarding nagging behavior. I like where this is going because you pointed out that there's a definitive time. And I think that, I don't know if you meant to characterize it this way, or maybe I just took it sensitively as the, as trying to stick up for the naggies.

But it's not always about that. It's always the responsibility of the person who said I was going to get it done. Or I'm going to do it.

Just let me do it when I do it kind of thing to always set that, that deadline, right? Someone who is going to say, I'm going to continue harping on it until it's done. Also should say, when is it going to be done? When is it going to be done by then? That's not going to help the situation any better. But if there's something you need to talk about, let's set some clear deadlines, some clear boundaries around, okay, so chill out until like this is done.

A lot of times when it comes to nagging things, it's not just, hey, did you take out the trash? That's a minor thing. But there can be a lot of other major things in your life where, hey, did you go, I don't know, did you go transfer the account to whatever? We have some things that even in our lives, like that we need to go catch up on certain accounts. That, okay, it's putting it off.

You put it off till later in the year. You put it off till after this project, until work is easier, until whatever, like the next stage of life. Let me just not get a few months down the road.

Those kinds of things can become nagging things. I'm saying this from experience, but it's because you guys, you have some kind of disagreement on when it should be done. And then you go, okay, look, let me just take it from here.

I'll handle it. Don't worry about it. And you just, you just like, you try to like move on from it in the moment.

So you just leave the situation without actually setting any clear expectations. And I think that is where, you know, potential for me calling you nagging, assuming that you're the one who's nagging, or you saying what is gonna be done to continue harping on that for that type of situation to arise, right? Yeah. Yeah, I think you're like, exactly.

So what is gonna be done? No, I think a lot of it comes down to, it's not all the time, but a lot of times it's like a personality difference, right? Like one person says, I'm gonna do it. The other person says, well, I want something more definitive than that. And maybe, and maybe the other person's like, why? That's just not my style, right? And so that's where the conflict comes in, because you have an idea of how you, the timeline of how you think it should be done, or can you tell me the steps that you're going to take to accomplish this task? And the other person's like, no, can you just trust me to do it? And then it seems like nagging, because it's like, I would like to know, have you done step A before we can like accomplish the entire thing? And you're like, don't ask me about A, B, C, D, E, F, G. I'm just gonna do it.

And so going back to heart check, I'm not gonna blame the person who, let's say you had that initial conversation. You said, oh, okay, when is it gonna be done? Okay, let's just say, and I put on the calendar, it's gonna be done by December 1st, right? And you go, okay, great. Anything else you want to add to that? No, that sounds good.

Okay, go ahead. I trust you. I trust you.

And then all the time until December, whatever, have you done it? It doesn't matter. Or like, we don't have to talk about it. We said we wouldn't talk about it until whatever.

And then you're like, doesn't seem like you've been doing anything on it. You're like, you don't have to be done the first step, because if you haven't done the first step, then you're not gonna, look, I got it. I told you I got it.

So that's also a hard check on the naggers side. I see that you're team nag. I gotta stick up for, I'm not saying it's all guys, but generally that's how it's characterized, that the woman is nagging.

Look, the Bible characterized it that way. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to represent here, that look, if you already said that, and that's with the clear expectation. Now, that doesn't mean that you have a conversation, and that means, okay, you're not allowed to talk to me about this.

There's a relationship, and things change, circumstances change. And if your spouse or your significant other is feeling uneasy, feeling nervous, feeling anxious about something, it's worth the conversation. It's not just like, you just go, look, I said, trust me, don't talk to me.

You're gonna cause more relationship strife than you probably want. If they do want, it has to be a give and take, right? So it's not just like you get to demand and step over boundaries where you said you would trust me or leave it to me, right? But at the same time, it's not a bad thing to say, okay, what else would you like to talk about? What else can I let? And maybe then when personality differences come in, and you say, I just want to know that you've done the first thing. It's like, okay, I haven't.

And do you have anything to say? I would like you to do the first step. It's like, okay, I would also like you to let me do it on my timeline. These are things where it doesn't necessarily mean that one person is right or wrong, but if someone's violated the terms of the agreement or like just the boundaries to say, hey, let's just leave this alone until then, then you just have to call it what it is.

I can say, look, you're nagging right now, if that was the case. So I can see that there might be a snag in this scenario because if I'm talking about potentially being team nagger here. Yes, team nagger.

I hope you're proud of yourself. Let's just say hypothetically that the person that you're asking to do something has had a track record of not really completing things in the timeline that they've used. Say, I'll do it by December 1st.

We've had several instances in the past where you haven't completed things in the way that you said you were going to do it. And so there's an element of broken trust there. And so, yes, if you say, quit nagging me, don't you trust me? No, I'm having a hard time trusting you because you haven't shown yourself to be trustworthy in the past.

And so I think that's difficult because you don't want to bring up the past and say, you haven't done it before. Remember last time because that obviously isn't a productive way to approach things. But at the same time, it makes it difficult to move forward and say, yeah, I trust you to do.

And I feel like we're a little bit far removed from this because I- Oh, I feel like I can still remember yesterday. I can totally relate to this. I know we've had these conversations.

And you know what? Now that we're talking about, we've described a little bit more, we've had conversations like this in the recent. Not like recent. I don't know.

I can't remember, honestly. But I know we've had it in the past few years, at least, like where we've had situations where it's, when is it going to be done? Let's talk about the timeline here. And without us nagging, we still have to have these conversations.

And the reason why we probably haven't run into nags is because we've had some clear expectations set. Sorry, but you're bringing up, what if there is some broken trust? What if you have said you were going to get something done in the past and you haven't? Sorry, did you want to add to that? No, yeah. I think that's great.

Especially if, look, the reason why I'm nagging is because you've said this before and you haven't done it. Let's talk about our agreement again. Because you said you trust me to handle this until December 1st.

I'm just saying, let's say if the agreement is, let me handle it till December 1st. Okay, I will trust you to handle it till December 1st. That's what you're agreeing to.

Whether there's broken trust or not, you've agreed to that. I'm defending the naggies here. Look, I know I've messed up before.

You said you forgave me on that before though, right? We're going to let the past be past and I'm going to hit this on December 1st. Now, if I don't, we can revisit it then, but trust me to get it done until then. Now, it's very important that you have these clear boundaries because if you just say, just trust me to handle it, then it's okay.

That's a hard target to define or that's hard to measure if you've hit the target. So I do think that if you come back and go, okay, look, I know I said I trust you, but look, the last time that you didn't follow through, I lost some trust. And I know we really didn't get to talk about that before.

And so I need to bring it up with you because this is really, I'm getting anxious and I can't wait till December. We need to talk about this. It comes back to communicating.

It comes back to going into the unknown and having tough conversations and defining and really sharing. This is what's really at the root of it, right? This is why it's hard for me not to nag. This is why it's hard for me not to share, not to feel like I can trust you right now, because you haven't done what you said.

Hey, I give you my word, but your word meant nothing. I think once you can actually say, number one, yes, you broke your promise and move on with forgiveness. And then now I trust you to handle this and then stick to that.

That's what you agree to. So that's how you, that's what you need to stick to. If you don't stick to that, then there needs to be something else that's discussed.

If it's broken trust, like now we can move into how do you restore trust? Like how do you handle that if there's been broken trust? But I don't think that's where you're going. I think it would be helpful to just take the word nagging out of the equation altogether. If nobody ever said you're nagging me or quit nagging me, I think maybe that would save a lot of people from getting into conflict in the first place.

If you took that out of the equation altogether so that nobody could ever say, quit nagging me, then it would force you to actually have a conversation, right? If someone's coming at you and you feel like they're nagging, instead of saying, quit nagging, you could say like, I'm feeling a little bit offended right now. Okay. Yeah.

You could say that. But when you call someone out and say you're nagging, it's like, you are stopping the conversation right there. Quit talking to me.

You're nagging. Sure. And so the other person feel like rejected and they probably didn't feel like they were in the first place.

So they thought they were coming to try to talk to you. And then all of a sudden you shut them down and then communication is lost altogether. Whereas if you eliminated that word altogether, you could maybe have a more productive conversation.

I don't know. Okay. So let's eliminate the word nag and let's see what happens.

So go ahead. Go ahead. Tell me something I need to get done.

I don't know what I'm going to say. I'm just wondering what's going to naturally come out. It's so unnatural for me.

Since it, yeah, to blink, to do the thing. Unsaid word. I don't even know.

I don't have. Just tell me to go take out the trash. Hey, honey, the trash can's getting full.

You think you could? I know my takeout day is Monday. I'll take it out. I know it's only Friday, but.

Yeah. Smells. So do you think that maybe you could do it a little bit earlier? Gotcha.

Would you like to take that? You can take out the trash earlier. I said I'd take it out. No, I'm just kidding.

I would probably go take out the trash. But let's just say that I was, I said that I, you know, I was offended that you were like, why are you bringing it up? It's Friday or whatever. I mean, I'd like to say something like, what would I say? I would say, I say, okay.

I mean, you have said things to me like. Yeah. I have it on the schedule.

Like. I have it on the schedule. Don't worry about it.

I'm already thinking of it. I'm already thinking of it. I have it.

Don't worry, I smell it too. I smell it too. I haven't forgotten.

Right. Okay. Yeah.

So you can just say that. And that's reassuring to me. Sure.

That you haven't forgotten. True. Okay.

That you're acknowledging that what I'm saying makes sense to you. Right. That I have a valid concern.

Yeah. Now let's say though, that didn't reassure you. And for some reason, it just, you're still anxious about it or you really actually want to talk about it.

Because that's actually, you wanted to revisit the actual agreement because of whatever reason. Here's what I can imagine happening. You say, no, I'll do it on Monday or whatever.

So then I get mad and I'm like, forget it. He's not going to do it. I'm going to do it myself.

Then I take it out Friday and then you're mad because I did what you were supposed to do. Okay. Okay.

Sure. Yeah. That can happen.

Yeah. If you want to do it, go ahead. I will be like, why'd you do the job? Like when I said I'd do it, some people would be relieved.

She did the work for me, but some people would be like, like, how come you don't trust me now? And so we have to revisit the, yeah. Again, it's just like, it's bringing all the issues and putting it all on the table, looking at it together and saying, these are all the things that bother you. These are all the things that I am good with that don't bother me.

Whereas what's the, it's not the middle ground, but like, how do we address both people's concerns or both people's wants and then agree that, okay, look, this is the agreement that we're going to have between us. Are we good to agree on that and move forward and stick with it? Or do you have anything else to add to that? So I think what it sounds like you're saying is ultimately, and I feel like we just keep coming back to this is ultimately it comes down to being able to communicate. Yes.

Yes. Yeah. Everything is communication.

Everything's communication. Like just get to a conversation. Yeah.

A lot of times what's under the root of nagging is just uncommunicated feelings. And once those feelings are handled, anxiousness, whether it be anxiousness, whether it be anger, resentment, unforgiveness, and that's what's at the root of the lack of trust, maybe just past wounds, past, all these things can rise to, oh, that's why I'm nagging. Maybe you don't even realize that's why you're nagging, but for whatever reason, that's what's causing you to do that.

That's what's causing me to react that way. Yeah. And yeah, you have to talk about it.

Sorry. So why did you bring up those verses again? Oh, no, I just wanted to know. I was actually fishing for a compliment.

I wanted you to tell me. I gave you a compliment earlier. Yes.

Yes. Yeah. Okay.

Let's bring it back. Let's bring it home. How do you deal with when you realize, oh, okay, maybe someone's listening to this and they're saying, I kind of nag.

I realize I've been nagging or somebody is like, man, she or he always nags me. I'm tired of this. I am going to stick up for him or I'm going to finally tell him off.

And obviously, either side wants to do something productive. How do they start the conversation to say, hey, look, I'm sorry I've been nagging or hey, look, I'm sorry I keep telling you that you're a nagger or telling you that you're nagging without really explaining what else or explaining more to that and just shutting the conversation down. Maybe that's how you start.

So that's how you start. And then I'll let you give the next step there. What would you do after that? So come together.

Come together. Acknowledge the situation that obviously there's tension every time we talk about this because it seems like you want something done or it seems like I don't want to do something right now. Right.

Like you've been telling me forever to like a better example. You've been telling me forever to take out the trash. I just look.

I don't want to do it before Monday. I'm just I'm a principled man and I don't stray from the script. OK, so I know the trash can smell.

I don't want to handle it until Monday. So until then, can you not? I won't say NAG, but can you not bring it up until then? So, yeah, I think maybe back up a little bit. And before we get there to like resolving the problem, I think before we get there, I think you have to get to why does one person nag or why does the other person feel like there's so much nagging? Right.

So you come to the table and you say, it's important to me that you trust me to take out the trash when I say I'm going to. Why is it so important to you or what is so important to you that you want me to take it out on Friday? Or like trying to understand where the other person's coming from. So you express and maybe you start with letting the other person explain what's so important to them.

But like, obviously, both people have an important if you're a principled man, then I'm a principled woman. Right. Like I have a reason that I want things done a certain way.

You have a reason you want to do things a certain way. And so we have to come to an understanding about where we're both coming from. Yeah.

Yes. So I appreciate your example. I do think instinctually, I think that's hard to say.

It's important to me that we stick to this. But I want to also understand, why did you bring it? Usually you're instinct is to say, OK, fine. I'm going to have a conversation.

I'm going to tell him how I feel. So look, I said I was going to get it done on Monday. You said that you would trust me to do it on Monday.

I would appreciate if you didn't bring it up until Monday. Yeah. And it just starts like that.

And I think that obviously, if you start with a certain tone, that makes it hard. If both people are coming to the table and the other person hears that, he goes, OK, obviously he's mad. And even talking about it and bringing it up makes him a little bit ticked.

The other person comes back and says, OK, I hear you. The reason that I think if both people can just say, and as long as you're listening and you're not trying to be heard, and both people are expressing from where they're coming from, and then there's an intentionality to resolve, like all these things have to be on the table. But yeah, essentially, that is the foundation of communication, right? Both people sharing how they feel.

Both people figuring out how do we move forward from here. But yeah, I think the main issue when it comes to nagging is that nagging is really just exposing what's deeper, that there's something that's unresolved. Either the naggy or the nagger has something that is deeper.

And that's why it's so offensive to be nagged. Or it's just, it bothers me so much, I just can't deal with it. Every time I hear that nagging, it's just like, ugh, get me to a deserted island, like the Bible says.

Or the wife, you know, is just up here, like just for some reason, just has to keep nagging. I just, how am I supposed to not say it? He's just like, look, he's not even moving. Like, why is there so much anxiousness? Why is there so much need to remind the other person to get the job done? Or whatever it is, that's like, you can nag about anything.

But okay, so I think that it's best to end here with those verses again. Let's just hear those verses. And then maybe there's some new insight for the next time we talk about this.

Or maybe that just closes it out. And maybe it all makes more sense now that we hear it again. All right, here we go.

A nagging wife annoys like a constant dripping. Better to live on a corner of the roof than share a house with a quarrelsome wife. It is better to live alone in the desert than with a quarreling and complaining wife.

A nagging wife is as annoying as the constant dripping on a rainy day. I think that was pretty obvious. Bible is pretty team naggy.

Saying that the nagger is the one who's like, who's bringing the problems. You know what, all I got to say is trash days on Wednesday.